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| Charles Finney (I just thought I would throw this in there) |
It was interesting to leave my reformed college, full of reformed friends and teachers, and come home to have this conversation. He said something along these lines, “The main thing I don’t like about Calvinists is their arrogance, because they think they have everything right. I believe that I am saved by the grace of God. If when I go to heaven he tells me that he chose me and predestined me, then I guess I will be wrong. But I don’t think it matters very much.” This statement ended a discussion about whether or not God has predestined some to be vessels of glory and others to be vessels of dishonor, some to be saved and some to not be saved.
I strongly believe in predestined salvation, and the complete sovereignty of God. However, the conversation itself didn’t matter as much as his last statement. Neither of us convinced each other of anything, but he did hit me right where I needed to be hit, by his statement about arrogant Calvinists.
Are we arrogant? We have our very particular liturgies and hymn books. We have our Westminster Confession and Catechism, the Heidelberg Catechism, and Calvin’s institutes. These statements of faith are seen to be basically as infallible as the word of God. If one disputes them, then they are probably not a Christian, or at least they are a very immature one. I don’t mean to undermine the importance of these historical statements. They are brilliant and beautiful.
What I mean to dispute is the arrogant tendencies of people who believe in them.
As a part of the reformed community, I have witnessed belittling or mocking comments made towards people of other denominations, and I even threw in some of my own comments in these conversations. Whether or not people of other denominations were present during these conversations hardly matters. We shake our heads at Pentecostals, Baptists, etc, amazed at their ignorance and unbiblical theology.
I am not claiming innocence or trying to be self-righteous. I have done this myself. However, I am appalled at my own arrogance and the arrogance of others, because that is exactly what the reformed faith is not about. We recognize God’s complete sovereignty and our helplessness, our complete depravity. We cannot take credit for our salvation or even the mind-blowing theology we believe in so strongly. Any knowledge we have is a gift from God, and if we look down on people who don’t believe like we do, can we really say we believe that we are helpless and completely dependent on our sovereign God?
I’m not saying that we can’t have discussions and disagreements with Arminians. Discussions force us to examine our beliefs through defending them, so they are valuable. However, when we have these discussions, we should be extremely humble and loving. Our faith isn’t about showing how smart we are, or how great Calvin is. It’s about bringing glory to God and showing our dependence on him. It’s also important to know that maybe we don’t have everything right, and we can learn from other non-reformed Christians (that is probably the hardest thing for me to realize).
Arrogance in the reformed Christian community is completely self-contradictory and hypocritical. We have to recognize that we are not saved, made wise, or knowledgeable because of our own efforts. It is all from God, by his grace. We owe all to him and can take credit for nothing. The last thing we should be known for is our arrogance.
"Our faith isn’t about showing how smart we are, or how great Calvin is. It’s about bringing glory to God and showing our dependence on him. It’s also important to know that maybe we don’t have everything right, and we can learn from other non-reformed Christians (that is probably the hardest thing for me to realize)."
ReplyDeleteAgreed. The sooner in life we get clear on this the more useful we will be to Christ whose honor we claim to be upholding. Took me about 25+ years, and I'm not there yet.
Jude says we are to contend earnestly for the truth. As Calvinists, be believe Calvinism to be nothing less than the purity of the gospel and should therefore should be defended as such.
ReplyDeleteIn todays society, arrogance has been redefined to aply to anyone who claims to have ultimate truth. Evangelicals have adopted this redefinition in order to attack Calvinists. This is a self-refuting argument as their world view also claims to be ultimate truth.
While I agree there should be a level of civility when we disagree, we shouldn't fall victim to to the convenient redefinition of terms and fallacious arguments.
@Sean-
ReplyDeleteArrogance: 1. exaggerating one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner 2. showing an offensive attitude of superiority (Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary)
This is the arrogance I am talking about. Thinking and acting like we are superior because we are right. We can claim we are right without acting this way, without acting like other people are stupid for not believing what we believe.
Also, I don't think my friend was redefining the word arrogance in order to claim that they are arrogant. He was saying that the way in which they disagreed with him was in a very overbearing belittling way.
What I want is for Calvinists to examine themselves and see if they are one of these arrogant reformed people who misrepresent the message we claim to be true.
“The main thing I don’t like about Calvinists is their arrogance, because they think they have everything right. I believe that I am saved by the grace of God. If when I go to heaven he tells me that he chose me and predestined me, then I guess I will be wrong. But I don’t think it matters very much.”
ReplyDeleteSo the very fact that we think we are right we are arrogant. Based on that definition, it is impossible to be right about anything without being arrogant.
In regards to his second statement, about it not mattering much, that shows his ignorance concerning what Calvinists actually believe. We believe what be believe because it upholds the glory of God above all other soteriological systems.
Even with your dictionary definition "offensive attitude of superiority", that is very subjective. All someone has to do is claim to be right, which automatically offends someone, even with no intention of hubris, and you are arrogant.
If we as Calvinist are "arrogant", it is because the Bible is so clear concerning the doctrines that we hold to. The issue at stake is the perspicuity, or clarity of Scripture.
With your friend's, and the dictionary definition of arrogance, Jesus was the most arrogant man to walk the planet.
Is something is true it is by definition superior to what is not. If someone disagreed with my claim that 2+2=4, I would wager he would think my arguments were "overbearing and belittling."
The whole arrogance argument is a result of our post-modern societal reflex to recoil at any claim of absolute truth.
dont consider myself reformed, but i think that this applies to all different denominations. when it becomes a battle of "us versus them", you lose the entire gospel. humility people, regardless of what denomination you are. we are all CHISTIANS, first and foremost. dont lose the CHRIST part when you lable yourself a calvinist, baptist, presbyterian, lutherin, etc. nothing wrong with choosing a denomination based on what creed or confession that you believe to be most biblical or right.. but there IS something wrong with thinking that you're "better" than any other Christian because of "your" denomination.
ReplyDeleteLike I said, "We can claim we are right without acting this way, without acting like other people are stupid for not believing what we believe."
ReplyDeleteEver met one of those people who have all the answers? Who refuse to be refuted or to listen to another person's argument? Who treat others as a lesser people because they don't agree with him? Who make fun of people who don't agree with him? Who is just kind of a jerk, when you try to get into a discussion with him?
Let's put aside the fact that you and I are Calvinists. That we believe we are right in our theology.
I am talking about PRIDE vs. HUMILITY. I am using pride and arrogance interchangeably. Regardless of whether we are right or wrong, pride/arrogance towards other people is completely unacceptable, especially given the message of total dependence on God that we hold to.
Calvinists shouldn't be known as people like what I described in the paragraph above. I am NOT saying that to claim we are right is arrogance. It's the WAY in which we claim our correctness. It's a heart issue.
I am sure that plenty of post-modernists call Calvinists arrogant for the reason you said, but that is simply not what I am talking about here. I am talking about our hearts, our attitudes, the way we treat people, the way we think of our selves.
I now see that my anecdote may have been misleading and obviously caused misunderstanding and led you away from what I meant to say, but I hope we are clear now. I hope you understand what my point is.
@Linnea- Yes that is exactly what I am trying to say.
ReplyDeleteTo add to my previous comment from 1:07am-
ReplyDeleteEphesians 4:1-16 says it well.
First, I agree with Sean. Our society will cry "arrogance" at anyone who claims ultimate truth. If I say that premillennial dispensationalism is wrong and believe it strongly, does that reflect an arrogant attitude? If so, how does one's opponent show that?
ReplyDeleteSecond, Marissa, you said that Calvinists have a tendency to be arrogant. This is, as you should know, a false cause argument. Besides, no one has done any qualitative analysis that proves Calvinists are or tend to be more arrogant. As Linnea intimated, one can apply your same argument to any evangelical. (I know a ton of ostensibly "arrogant" Arminians, etc.) Yes, I know a lot of jerks when it comes to theology, but that in no way reflects something inherent to the theology itself.
Third, it's impossible to have our doctrine right and be arrogant. True theology demands humility.
Finally, I would argue that your position in the post is the majority position within the Reformed community. In other words, Reformed people as a whole believe that there is this staggering arrogance that we need to battle. But is this true? What does it mean to know one's theology? Do Reformed people actually know their theology? I believe that to beat ourselves up over this supposed pride works to legitimate our ignorance. But...there I go being arrogant again.
Dr. Mac
I meant "quantitative"
ReplyDeleteDr. Mac, you can only call something a false cause argument if someone is suggesting a cause. Marissa noted a correlation between being a Calvinist and being arrogant, but there is a difference between correlation and causation. After rereading the post, I see no sentence in which she stated or even implied a cause and effect relationship.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I don't see that the lack of a quantitative (or even qualitative) analysis is relevant. We can make simple observations about reality without doing quantitative analyses. I can state that women tend to be shorter than men without doing a quantitative analysis, because this is what I have observed.